<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: On Master of the Senate and Health Care</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:46:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tin Man</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-135155</link>
		<dc:creator>Tin Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-135155</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re saying it will cut benefits, make poor people poorer, and won&#039;t provide healthcare for anyone, when it will actually give people health insurance subsidies, thereby helping them buy health insurance and save tons of money when they get medical care instead of paying thousands of dollars out of their own pockets?  And you really think people are going to go to prison for not buying health insurance?

This debate is kind of out of date, anyway, since it looks like whatever eventually get signed into law will not be exactly like the current House or Senate proposals.  You&#039;re also forgetting the political aspect of this whole thing, which was &lt;i&gt;the whole point&lt;/i&gt; of this blog post, which is that passing something now will be a big psychological victory &lt;i&gt;that will make it easier to get more victories later&lt;/i&gt;, because altering a system is easier than creating it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re saying it will cut benefits, make poor people poorer, and won&#8217;t provide healthcare for anyone, when it will actually give people health insurance subsidies, thereby helping them buy health insurance and save tons of money when they get medical care instead of paying thousands of dollars out of their own pockets?  And you really think people are going to go to prison for not buying health insurance?</p>
<p>This debate is kind of out of date, anyway, since it looks like whatever eventually get signed into law will not be exactly like the current House or Senate proposals.  You&#8217;re also forgetting the political aspect of this whole thing, which was <i>the whole point</i> of this blog post, which is that passing something now will be a big psychological victory <i>that will make it easier to get more victories later</i>, because altering a system is easier than creating it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-135141</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-135141</guid>
		<description>What is your suggestion, then libhomo? What should we do? My preference is for socialist revolution, but beggars can&#039;t be choosers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is your suggestion, then libhomo? What should we do? My preference is for socialist revolution, but beggars can&#8217;t be choosers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: libhomo</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-135128</link>
		<dc:creator>libhomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-135128</guid>
		<description>There are some facts you are not aware of.

We already spend more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world.

Most people in this country get less healthcare than people do in Canada and most of Europe.

The HMOs and insurance companies already get more money than is needed to provide healthcare for everyone in our country now.  No one in this country needs to pay a penny more.

The subsidies for healthcare don&#039;t come close to what the HMOs and insurance companies charge.  Most of the people who lack coverage now will simply have to pay the fines or go to prison. 

Also, keep in mind the fact that premiums and HMO charges will skyrocket once the system of fines is in place.  The money going to HMOs and health insurers never has had anything to do with actual costs.  It&#039;s what those thieves can get away with.

If you don&#039;t believe me, remember what happened when California made car insurance mandatory.  Everyone&#039;s premiums immediately skyrocketed, even though people were told the legislation would make them go down.

There is this big myth that people who aren&#039;t buying health insurance are &quot;cheating the system.&quot;  That is just as much a scam as the whole &quot;ex gay&quot; thing. It is perpetrated by wealthy and upper middle class people who have health insurance and have no clue what most people in this country actually have to go through.

The idea of &quot;doing something&quot; can sound great.  But, this is a case where there is a far right wealthcare bill that manages to achieve what many considered improbable or impossible.  It&#039;s far worse than even what we have now.

The Senate legislation will cut benefits, make poor people poorer, make HMOs and health insurers wealthier.  The fact is that it won&#039;t provide healthcare for anyone. This is why we need public financing of political campaigns to fight the massive corruption in DC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some facts you are not aware of.</p>
<p>We already spend more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world.</p>
<p>Most people in this country get less healthcare than people do in Canada and most of Europe.</p>
<p>The HMOs and insurance companies already get more money than is needed to provide healthcare for everyone in our country now.  No one in this country needs to pay a penny more.</p>
<p>The subsidies for healthcare don&#8217;t come close to what the HMOs and insurance companies charge.  Most of the people who lack coverage now will simply have to pay the fines or go to prison. </p>
<p>Also, keep in mind the fact that premiums and HMO charges will skyrocket once the system of fines is in place.  The money going to HMOs and health insurers never has had anything to do with actual costs.  It&#8217;s what those thieves can get away with.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe me, remember what happened when California made car insurance mandatory.  Everyone&#8217;s premiums immediately skyrocketed, even though people were told the legislation would make them go down.</p>
<p>There is this big myth that people who aren&#8217;t buying health insurance are &#8220;cheating the system.&#8221;  That is just as much a scam as the whole &#8220;ex gay&#8221; thing. It is perpetrated by wealthy and upper middle class people who have health insurance and have no clue what most people in this country actually have to go through.</p>
<p>The idea of &#8220;doing something&#8221; can sound great.  But, this is a case where there is a far right wealthcare bill that manages to achieve what many considered improbable or impossible.  It&#8217;s far worse than even what we have now.</p>
<p>The Senate legislation will cut benefits, make poor people poorer, make HMOs and health insurers wealthier.  The fact is that it won&#8217;t provide healthcare for anyone. This is why we need public financing of political campaigns to fight the massive corruption in DC.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tin Man</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-135009</link>
		<dc:creator>Tin Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-135009</guid>
		<description>Of course this bill is reform.

If we&#039;re going to have a bill that prohibits insurances companies from denying people insurance based on pre-existing conditions, then healthy people will avoid getting health insurance until they get sick, which will mean that only sick people will have health insurance and premiums will skyrocket.  So you have to mandate that healthy people get health insurance, so you have a more even risk pool.  What other mechanism is there for making sure healthy people buy health insurance besides fines?  Also, this bill subsidizes health insurance for &lt;i&gt;millions&lt;/i&gt; of people.  This bill gives people money to help them buy insurance.

And yes, those premiums would go to insurance companies.  Ideally, we would have a public option or a single-payer system, but that&#039;s just not going to happen in this environment.  Given that, who&#039;s left to provide insurance?  Insurance companies.  What is the next best thing to do?  Nothing?

This bill is flawed, but it does lots of good.  And it&#039;s psychologically easier to fix an existing program than to pass one from scratch, which is the point of my post.  We are THISCLOSE to passing a program from scratch -- all the House needs to do is pass the goddamn bill.

And not everything can be done through budget reconciliation.  It would be better for the House to pass the Senate bill and then use reconciliation for the rest.  Nate Silver explains &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/insidious-myth-of-reconciliation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/1-reconciliation-2-3-profit.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course this bill is reform.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to have a bill that prohibits insurances companies from denying people insurance based on pre-existing conditions, then healthy people will avoid getting health insurance until they get sick, which will mean that only sick people will have health insurance and premiums will skyrocket.  So you have to mandate that healthy people get health insurance, so you have a more even risk pool.  What other mechanism is there for making sure healthy people buy health insurance besides fines?  Also, this bill subsidizes health insurance for <i>millions</i> of people.  This bill gives people money to help them buy insurance.</p>
<p>And yes, those premiums would go to insurance companies.  Ideally, we would have a public option or a single-payer system, but that&#8217;s just not going to happen in this environment.  Given that, who&#8217;s left to provide insurance?  Insurance companies.  What is the next best thing to do?  Nothing?</p>
<p>This bill is flawed, but it does lots of good.  And it&#8217;s psychologically easier to fix an existing program than to pass one from scratch, which is the point of my post.  We are THISCLOSE to passing a program from scratch &#8212; all the House needs to do is pass the goddamn bill.</p>
<p>And not everything can be done through budget reconciliation.  It would be better for the House to pass the Senate bill and then use reconciliation for the rest.  Nate Silver explains <a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/insidious-myth-of-reconciliation.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/1-reconciliation-2-3-profit.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: libhomo</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-135000</link>
		<dc:creator>libhomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-135000</guid>
		<description>The Senate bill is not a healthcare bill at all.  It is a wealthcare bill that moves backwards, not forward.  Fining people for not being able to pay exorbitant premiums, slashing Medicare, restricting abortion, and shoveling more money at corporations who get more than enough money already to provide quality healthcare to all Americans is not reform.

The Senate could easily pass real healthcare reform with budget reconciliation.  The filibuster is an empty excuse that anti reform politicians like Harry Reid have used far too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Senate bill is not a healthcare bill at all.  It is a wealthcare bill that moves backwards, not forward.  Fining people for not being able to pay exorbitant premiums, slashing Medicare, restricting abortion, and shoveling more money at corporations who get more than enough money already to provide quality healthcare to all Americans is not reform.</p>
<p>The Senate could easily pass real healthcare reform with budget reconciliation.  The filibuster is an empty excuse that anti reform politicians like Harry Reid have used far too long.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.tinmanic.com/archives/2010/01/29/on-master-of-the-senate-and-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-134988</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tinmanic.com/?p=4446#comment-134988</guid>
		<description>Excellent! A perfect example of why something is better than nothing. However, the Civil Rights Acts also show why the Republicans will be committed to do everything they can to block ANY reform bill lest it be the slippery slope to Nazi fascist Muslim communist government rationed health care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent! A perfect example of why something is better than nothing. However, the Civil Rights Acts also show why the Republicans will be committed to do everything they can to block ANY reform bill lest it be the slippery slope to Nazi fascist Muslim communist government rationed health care.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

