Prop 8 Trial Continues

During the Prop 8 trial, I’ve been following the Prop 8 Trial Tracker blog created by the Courage Campaign. It seems like our side has been putting on a great case, and the Prop 8 folks have been putting on a pretty lackluster case.

Of course, none of this really matters, because even if Judge Walker rules in our favor, and even if the Ninth Circuit upholds that decision, this will eventually wind up in the U.S. Supreme Court, where Justice Kennedy will be the deciding vote. No matter how rational our side’s arguments are, we’ll never get the votes of Roberts, Scalia, Thomas or Alito.

It’s really unclear what side Kennedy would be on. He’s written a couple of seminal pro-gay decisions — Romer and Lawrence. But what would he think about the validity of marriage equality?

No matter what happens in the Supreme Court, though, this trial has been a net plus. While I don’t know how much publicity the trial has had since the first week, it can only change people’s minds in favor of equality. I seriously doubt it would turn anyone againstmarriage equality who wasn’t already opposed.

Even if we lose in the Supreme Court, that’s not so bad. The Court wouldn’t outlaw marriage equality; it would just leave everything up to the states, which is where we are now. And any state-based marriage case that involved the interpretation of a state’s constitution would be unaffected, because the U.S. Supreme Court has no legal say over how to interpret a state constitution.

There are some who say that an adverse decision in the Supreme Court would set back the cause of equality, but that’s not necessarily so. As last week’s campaign finance case shows, the Court has no compunction about overturning its own precedents, even if those precedents are less than ten years old.

So I think that whatever happens, this trial has been a net win.

There’s a Martin Luther King quote that Obama has often used in the last couple of years:

The arc of history is long… but it bends towards justice.

In the long run, we’re moving toward equality.

More Tam Testimony

Oh, I forgot this gem of an exchange from William Tam’s testimony yesterday. Pages 197-199:

Q. Have you seen anything in writing that says that [sexual orientation can be changed]?

A. I saw in a website, yeah.

Q. What website?

A. It’s the NARTH website.

Q. What?

A. NARTH [an “ex-gay” group].

Q. And do you believe that the NARTH website is a source of objective scientific information?

A. Well, I believe in what they say.

Q. Now, you mentioned the APA a moment ago.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall that?

A. Yes.

Q. What’s the APA?

A. I think it’s American Psychological Association.

Q. Yes. And what does the American Psychological Association say about sexual orientation?

A. I don’t know.

Q. You don’t know?

A. I don’t know.

Q. You never tried to find out?

A. No, I don’t — I don’t.

Q. You thought it was better to get your scientific information about this issue from the NARTH website as opposed to the American Psychological Association. Is that your testimony?

A. Uhm, yeah, I believe in what NARTH says.

Um, you can “believe in” aliens, or God, or ESP. But facts are what’s important in a court case, not “beliefs.”

William Tam Admits He’s “Paranoid”

There was some highly entertaining testimony yesterday in the Prop 8 trial. It was from William Tam, who worked on behalf of Prop 8. Tam had originally been a party to the case, but he dropped out because his theories would have come off as too batshit crazy. But Olson and Boies subpoenaed him as a witness anyway to showcase how nutty some of the Prop 8 people are. And Tam certainly delivered. He even admitted that his fears about marriage equality are “paranoid.”

His testimony starts on page 145 of yesterday’s transcript. Below is the first example I saw of how reasoned argument can be used to demolish inflammatory rhetoric; this starts on page 182. The questions were asked by David Boies.

Q. And you say: “The San Francisco city government is under the rule of homosexuals.” Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you believe that, sir?

A. Yes, I believed that.

Q. Who are the homosexuals that San Francisco is under the rule of?

A. Uhm, at that time, supervisor Tom Ammiano was a supervisor there.

Q. And there was also a mayor, right?

A. Yes.

Q. The mayor was a homosexual, was he, according to you?

A. I don’t think so.

Q. You don’t think so? No, I don’t think so either, actually. So if you knew the mayor wasn’t homosexual, why are you telling people in part of the Proposition 8 campaign that San Francisco is under the rule of homosexuals?

A. Uhm, well, you see, Mayor Newsom pass out the same-sex marriage licenses in 2004. And if he is not a friend of them, why would he do that?

Q. When you say that San Francisco was under the rule of homosexuals, did you mean San Francisco was under the rule of heterosexuals that were friends of homosexuals? Is that what you meant?

A. Could be.

Q. Could be.

A. Yeah, you know, I’m not a lawyer. I don’t write things so specifically. You know, that well-defined.

Yes, if you’re having a debate about the civil rights of human beings, it would be silly for the arguments to be “well-defined.” It’s much better to distort the truth.

You know, instead of allowing nutjobs to argue on cable TV and make outlandish claims that don’t get refuted, we should require every debate to be conducted in front of a judge, in a civilized, rational manner, because that’s how the truth really comes out.

Tam unintentionally admits the real truth on pages 221-222:

[I]f the name of “marriage” is not so narrow, which is between people of different — different blood, of different — of age above 18, then our children — you know, I always, we always look at things from the angle of a parent — that they would fantasize. Everyone fantasize whom they will marry when they grow up. So children will fantasize about marrying either a man or a woman. And to us parents — you may say that I’m a paranoid Chinese parent — we get very, very upset about that.

Many a true word is spoken in jest.